Ted Turner Once Considered Launching a Conservative Channel ...

In our second Slate Plus episode from Slow Burn Season 10, host Josh Levin talks with Tom Johnson, the former president of Fox’s archrival, CNN. Johnson talks about his years working in the White House, his rise through print journalism to one of the biggest jobs in cable news, and his unlikely friendship with Fox News’ Roger Ailes.

Slate Plus members can listen to an audio version of this conversation. Hear more about the early years of CNN and its rivalry with Fox News in Episode 3, The Other Guy’s Hamburger.

Transcript:

Hello and welcome to this Slate Plus bonus episode for Slow Burn Season 10: The Rise of Fox News. I’m Josh Levin.

All this year, our Slow Burn team has been interviewing dozens of people. Some of them worked at Fox News and some of them had to deal with Fox in some way or another.

Throughout this season, exclusively for Slate Plus members, we’re going to bring you more from those conversations, with extended cuts and brand-new storylines that you won’t get anywhere else.

Today, you’re going to hear from Tom Johnson. During the 1990s, he was president of Fox’s arch rival CNN. Later, he was chairman, president, and CEO of the CNN News Group. Before that, Tom was the president and publisher of the Los Angeles Times. And throughout his life, he was a witness to history. Consider that he just happened to be in the room when Mikhail Gorbachev resigned as president of the Soviet Union in 1991, and Tom stepped in at a crucial moment:

Stuart Loory: After his speech, he had to sign the document, and, uh, his pen did not work. Tom Johnson, the president of CNN, was standing at the table. He gave this pen to Mikhail Gorbachev. Gorbachev signed it, uh, Tom asked him for the pen back, Larry.

Larry King: And we’re certainly glad Tom Johnson had that pen, or else, Gorby might have still been there. Who knows with history.Tom was also in the White House when Martin Luther King Junior was assassinated. And later, he was one of the first to learn that president Lyndon Johnson had died. I began our conversation by asking how his career got started in the 1950s.

Tom Johnson: At age 14, I needed a job. The Georgia labor laws enabled you to work either in a grocery store or at a newspaper. I had tried sacking groceries and I decided that was not a career for me. A ninth grade teacher said there’s an opening at the Macon Telegraph for a sports correspondent. I should tell you, I was not the first or the second choice that the English professor, he sent two others down ahead of me. They both decided they would rather play sports than to report on sports. But I quickly fell in love with the reporters, uh, the editors, the Macon Telegraph editor said the most important thing you can do is to get it right. He said that includes the spelling of the high school quarterback’s name because his parents will want to make sure that the name is spelled correctly. He was a crusty old sports editor, Sam Glassman and I owe so much to, to him from a very early age.

Josh Levin: What was your job in the Johnson administration?

Johnson: I started as a White House fellow in the first class of White House fellows in 1965. And I advanced up to special assistant to the president, which at that time was the highest role that, uh, you could achieve. Later I became executive assistant to former president Johnson. So I had eight years with LBJ, four in the White House, four in Texas.

Levin: I was hoping you could tell the story of the day Martin Luther King, Jr. was shot and what your connection was to that.

Johnson: I was a young press aide. I just happened to be at the Associated Press and United Press International wire service tickers outside the office of the press secretary. The bells started going off like crazy. As I looked at it, these words came across from the UPI: “Dr. Martin Luther King has been shot in Memphis.” I ripped that off the wire service machine, I took it immediately to the Oval Office where President Johnson was seated. LBJ slumped back into his seat. It was a, it was, you know, exceptionally high impact on me particularly as a Georgian, and particularly having known some of those who, uh, served with, uh, Dr. King, you know, it, so, so it had really a sort of personal shock to me.

LBJ: I know that every American of good will joins me in mourning the death of this outstanding leader and in praying for peace and understanding throughout this land. We can achieve nothing by lawlessness.

Levin: Is it true that you also called Walter Cronkite to tell him personally that LBJ had died?

Johnson: It is true. Mrs. Johnson called me and said, ‘Tom, we did not make it this time. Lyndon is dead. I want you to take care of the arrangements and the announcement.’ I immediately asked my then assistant to place the calls, and the first of the network persons to answer directly was Walter Cronkite. And I told him of the death, and I heard him say to his producers, ‘uh, hold it.’

Walter Cronkite: Thank you very much, Tom. I’m on the air right at the moment. Can you hold the line just a second?

Johnson: And rather than returning to regular programming, they interrupted the CBS Evening News. I mean, today that’s routine, but at that point it was quite historic.

Walter Cronkite: Any other details, Tom? All right. Thank you very much, Tom. And we’ll of course be keeping in touch with you. Thank you. Tom Johnson tells me from Austin that, uh, President Johnson, the 36th president of the United States who served from the time of President Kennedy’s assassination in 1963. Until, uh, 1969, when President, uh, Nixon succeeded him, uh, has died. He died of a heart attack.

[MUSIC]

Levin: Do you remember hearing anything about this guy Ted Turner is going to start a 24 hour news network?

Johnson: I had heard of Ted, but I only heard more about Ted when I got to the Los Angeles Times, especially as we were approaching, say, 1980. Uh, Ted was predicting the demise of newspapers. And, and, and of course, after the launch in 1980, it was really fascinating because I found myself watching CNN at my desk at the Los Angeles Times, and there were certain news events that just captured world attention, Tiananmen Square, where CNN reported almost exclusively until the Chinese government shut them down in Beijing. There also was the baby Jessica in the well story. CNN just went around the clock in the rescue of baby Jessica.

Tony Clark: As for young Jessica, she appears to be doing alright, considering cameras and microphones have been dropped down. Jessica can be heard to call to her mother. She has been singing, humming, and occasionally crying.

Levin: Did you think, um, that you would ever work in television?

Johnson: It was never my goal. My goal was to become a newspaper publisher. I had seen the role of a newspaper publisher in my hometown of Macon, Peyton Anderson, who owned that paper. When he asked me what is it I really hope to do in life, I said, ‘Peyton, one day I’d like to become a publisher like you.’ I did not have a goal as becoming a network television executive

Levin: How did your conversations go with Ted when you started talking about the job?

Johnson: I said, ‘Ted, before you hire me, you need to know much more about me. And before I accept an offer, I need to know much more about you.’ My great friend, Otis Chandler, said ‘Ted Turner is a nut.’ I started doing my own due diligence. One of those calls was to Jane Fonda. I had gotten to know Jane in my role at the L.A. Times, and I said, ‘Jane, tell me about Ted.’ She said, ‘Tom, he’s the most remarkable man I’ve ever known.’ But also I went to some of my old friends, Mike Wallace, and also to Bill Moyers. Bill said, the future of television most likely is going to be on cable. And the future of cable is Ted Turner and CNN.

Levin: What was your understanding of what CNN’s mission was?

Johnson: Well, I will say this I said, ‘now Ted what is it you expect of me as a new president of CNN?’ He said, ‘I want you to make it the best news service on the planet, pal.’ I mean, Ted has called me pal during most of our relationship since 1980. Rarely he’s called me Tom. And I should tell you, there were a number of occasions when, Ted showed me that he was serious that we were going to try to be the best news network on the planet.

Levin: What were those occasions?

Johnson: First occasion, um, Saddam had invaded Kuwait. President Bush had said, this will not stand. And it was very clear. That the United States and coalition was going to take the steps to drive Iraq out of Kuwait. And I said, ‘Ted, we’ve had this advice that there’s likely to be a war and to prepare for it’s going to cost us much more than what we have in our budget.’ And he said, ‘how much?’ And I said, ‘well, I think it could be at least 5 million over budget, but it could be more than 30 million over budget.’ ‘You spend whatever you think it takes, pal.’ I’ll never forget those words. We put in place the personnel in Amman and in Baghdad, and I mean, when the war came, CNN was well prepared, and especially CNN had a uh, a so called four wire, a method of transmitting back audio from the Al Rashid Hotel back to Oman, back to North America, down into CNN Center.

Peter Arnett: Now, here in the hotel, the Al Rashid Hotel, where we are, some of our colleagues received calls from friends who said tonight may be the night for the multinational force to begin its strike against Iraq. And tonight it has come, John.

Johnson: And so when everybody else went out, all the power went out to everybody. CNN was still transmitting.

Bernard Shaw: I can see again, much of the city blacked out. There are no lights on the, uh, major telecommunications center in Baghdad, but it is still intact. It is still standing.

Johnson: I should tell you though, Ted made one other huge decision. One afternoon, my then assistant came in and said, ‘the president’s on the line.’ And one of, one of the smart ass people in the room said, ‘the president of what?’ And she said, ‘President Bush.’ So I took the phone call and it was not a White House operator. It was President Bush himself. And he said, ‘Tom, I know you’ve been called by Colin and by Marlon, and I just want to reinforce their message to you to get your people out.’ I called Ted at his ranch. And at that point, Ted, in the loudest imaginable voice, said, ‘our policy will be that those who want to stay can stay, and those who want to get out can get out.’ And in an even louder voice, he said, ‘and you will not overturn me, pal,’ not that I plan to. And it’s the only time that he ever said that, but that was the policy. He said, ‘I will take off of your conscience and put onto my conscience, anybody that may get killed or get, uh, injured.’ And I should tell you, while it gave me great relief, I still went to bed that evening, thinking that our team would not survive. And as you know, some of the missiles, Tomahawks missiles and others went right over the, our Rashida Hotel.

John Holliman: This is, this is eerie. It looks like a 4th of July display at the, uh, at the Washington Monument.

Johnson: This time we were able to capture one on camera, and a bit later, one of ‘em actually crashed near the lobby of the Al Rashida Hotel, so there was real imminent danger.

John Holliman: Oh, now there’s a huge fire that we’ve just seen that is due west of our position. And we just heard, whoa! Holy cow! That was a large air burst that we saw. It was filling the sky.

Peter Arnett: And I think John, that air burst took out the telecommunications.

Johnson: The Gulf War propelled CNN around the world. Our fax machines were literally just clogged with television stations around the U. S. and with news services around the world asking for permission to become a CNN affiliate to utilize our exclusive coverage and many of them would just say forget about what the charge is we would want to become an affiliate.

[MUSIC]

Levin: To ask about other times, just not during a time of, of war, was it a challenge to get viewers to stick around and continue watching CNN throughout the day?

Johnson: Yes, they would, they would turn to us when breaking news hit the fan, and then they would go back watching, you know, whatever was of interest to them, or perhaps not even watching television. It was just great peaks and valleys. Then along comes O.J. Simpson on the 405 freeway in that white Bronco, and the intensity of the viewing on that was greater than anything I’d ever seen. I would try to cut away from O.J. Simpson. That was true also going into his trial. I mean, the intensity of that interest.

[MUSIC]

Levin: What was the first inkling you had that Fox News was coming?

Johnson: John Malone, Dr. John Malone served on the Turner Broadcasting Board, and John Malone said to me that I should be careful, I guess be prepared, that he thought Rupert might very well launch a conservative channel. Now that was after Ted had discussed with me the possible creation of a separate conservative channel that CNN would continue to be what it was, but that we might create a conservative channel. I think he saw that there was a sufficient interest. I mean, Ted was just a continuing source of interesting, really sort of bold, visionary ideas. You know, things like, uh, asking me to look at leasing blimps, ’cause blimps provided a more stationary platform than helicopters. And blimps could stay aloft longer than helicopters. Ted said, ‘think about it. The CNN logo in the skies, much like Goodyear.’ Ted is a very creative outside-the-box kind of guy. And that’s one of the reasons I loved working with him as much as I did. I was a more conventional, uh, leader, much more conventional.

Levin: MSNBC and Fox News launched in 1996. What were you thinking at the time?

Johnson: I was thinking that I needed to really get prepared for Fox. I could just sense it. I mean, Roger Ailes, with his ingenuity and his craftiness and with his passion and with his political background especially, Fox took off like a rocket.

Levin: What was your relationship like with Roger Ailes?

Johnson: He was my friend. He was my friend. I’d come to know him much, much earlier. Uh, I mean, I just…he liked me, I liked him. It really troubled a lot of people, I guess, to know that Tom Johnson has this friend named Roger Ailes that we’re in combat with.

Levin: What did your friends and colleagues say about your relationship with Ailes?

Johnson: Oh my god, how…I mean Bill Moyers thought it was terrible. Terrible. Look, I think youcan have friends who have very different points of view than you in terms of where you stand on a variety of issues.

Levin: Did Roger Ailes actually care about the news in your experience?

Johnson: Oh, he cared more about winning. He cared, he also loved politics. He loved the gets. So the opportunity to outbook us, if he could, on political figures. I think he mostly loved being a political advisor to presidents and, and he was just like a perfect choice for what Rupert wanted to accomplish. The two of them were, were, I mean, just almost made for each other.

Levin: So you mentioned earlier the kind of fundamental challenge of getting people to tune in when there wasn’t breaking news, when it wasn’t hot. Do you think Fox cracked that in a way?

Johnson: Yes, yes, they did, but they also became the channel where they developed a tremendous amount of loyalty among conservatives, among Republicans, among the military, and if you look at the research, I mean, I’ve got conservative relatives. You can’t get them to get off of Fox. I mean, it’s, uh, it ruins my time with them almost because they’re so addicted. They’re almost addicted to Fox.

Levin: Do you fight with them about it?

Johnson: Sure, I never win.

Levin: What effect do you think that Fox News has had on journalism in America and on politics, culture, on the way that the country has developed since 1996?

Johnson: I think it’s had a terrible impact, I think it’s taken down the quality of journalism. I want to exempt from that broad statement many journalists there, some of whom I recommended to Roger when they weren’t able to find work elsewhere. Rupert and Roger have taken the quality of journalism down in their strategy.

Levin: Do you think it’s inevitable that Fox News, the Fox News of Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch would become what it has become, or was there potentially a different path it could have gone down?

Johnson: No, I think that it was almost designed to be what it is. And you have to recognize what a success it has become financially. And in audience share. I think it became what Rupert and Roger dreamed it would become.

[MUSIC OUT]

This bonus episode was produced by Jacob Fenston, with help from Sophie Summergrad and Lizzie Jacobs. I’m Josh Levin. Thanks very much for listening and for subscribing to Slate Plus, which makes this series possible. We’ll be back next week with more Slow Burn.

Levin: MSNBC and Fox News launched in 1996. What were you thinking at the time?Johnson: I was thinking that I needed to really get prepared for Fox. I could just sense it. I mean, Roger Ailes, with his ingenuity and his craftiness and with his passion and with his political background especially, Fox took off like a rocket.Levin: What was your relationship like with Roger Ailes?Johnson: He was my friend. He was my friend. I’d come to know him much, much earlier. Uh, I mean, I just…he liked me, I liked him. It really troubled a lot of people, I guess, to know that Tom Johnson has this friend named Roger Ailes that we’re in combat with.Levin: What did your friends and colleagues say about your relationship with Ailes?Johnson: Oh my god, how…I mean Bill Moyers thought it was terrible. Terrible. Look, I think you can have friends who have very different points of view than you in terms of where you stand on a variety of issues.Levin: Did Roger Ailes actually care about the news in your experience?Johnson: Oh, he cared more about winning. He cared, he also loved politics. He loved the gets. So the opportunity to outbook us, if he could, on political figures. I think he mostly loved being a political advisor to presidents and, and he was just like a perfect choice for what Rupert wanted to accomplish. The two of them were, were, I mean, just almost made for each other.Levin: So you mentioned earlier the kind of fundamental challenge of getting people to tune in when there wasn’t breaking news, when it wasn’t hot. Do you think Fox cracked that in a way?Johnson: Yes, yes, they did, but they also became the channel where they developed a tremendous amount of loyalty among conservatives, among Republicans, among the military, and if you look at the research, I mean, I’ve got conservative relatives. You can’t get them to get off of Fox. I mean, it’s, uh, it ruins my time with them almost because they’re so addicted. They’re almost addicted to Fox.Levin: Do you fight with them about it?Johnson: Sure, I never win.Levin: What effect do you think that Fox News has had on journalism in America and on politics, culture, on the way that the country has developed since 1996?Johnson: I think it’s had a terrible impact, I think it’s taken down the quality of journalism. I want to exempt from that broad statement many journalists there, some of whom I recommended to Roger when they weren’t able to find work elsewhere. Rupert and Roger have taken the quality of journalism down in their strategy.Levin: Do you think it’s inevitable that Fox News, the Fox News of Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch would become what it has become, or was there potentially a different path it could have gone down?Johnson: No, I think that it was almost designed to be what it is. And you have to recognize what a success it has become financially. And in audience share. I think it became what Rupert and Roger dreamed it would become.[MUSIC OUT]This bonus episode was produced by Jacob Fenston, with help from Sophie Summergrad and Lizzie Jacobs. I’m Josh Levin. Thanks very much for listening and for subscribing to Slate Plus, which makes this series possible. We’ll be back next week with more Slow Burn.